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Therese
Squire
USA
826 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2009 : 7:57:38 PM
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{Moderator's note: topic split from another thread.}
I could be wrong but I don't think you can have a priest "exorcise" your house. He could bless the house but any priest can do this, you don't have to ask for the Archdiocese Exorcist.
I think Brother Ignatius posted a house blessing that can be done by the person living in the house. |
Therese
"Lord, thou hast proved me, and known me: thou hast known my sitting down, and my rising up....Prove me O God, and know my heart; examine me, and know my paths. And see if there be in me the way of iniquity: and lead me in the eternal way." (Psalm 138, 1-2,23-24) |
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zim
(expellere)
Philippines
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 8:25:45 PM
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Hi Therese,
I learned that it can be done through a book written by Fr. Jose Francisco C. Syquia, official exorcist of the Archdiocese of Manila (Philippines). The book is "Exorcism: Encounters with the Paranormal and the Occult," second edition.
He told about his two involvement in driving spirits in two haunted houses in Chapters 13 and 14. He called it "house deliverance." He performed it in his uncle's house which is infested by a dark shadow and a heavy and cold spirit when you enter it. The second house was his parents old house which has had demonic manifestations which his brother would notice.
I'm not sure these manifestations exist in the US. But here in the Philippines we are familiar with what priests refer to as "nature spirits" which are actually demons residing in nature--trees, lakes, houses, etc. Pagan history indicates that these are the spirits that Filipino ancestors worshipped as "anitos" and give animal offerings.
In my own mind, if these are demons infesting a house (which I believe they are) then an able exorcist is the most capable one to face them and drive them. We may pray deliverance prayer; but the option to seek an exorcist to drive them out would be a more effective one as these may retaliate and a lay prayer of deliverance might be put in danger.
I hope I clarified the suggestion. |
Zim
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zim
(expellere)
Philippines
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 8:29:38 PM
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By the way, I'm not sure of any specific meaning attached to the word "exorcism" other than casting out evil. That was simply what was in my mind when using the word in casting out the demons in the house.  |
Zim
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Bro. Ignatius Mary
Director SPCDC
USA
2318 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 8:55:03 PM
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Folks:
Objects and houses may indeed be infested with demons. The Rite of Exorcism, however, is for the casting out of demons from a person. Thus, prayers that seek to rid a place from demons is not restricted to a priest. Laity may also bless a house. No special faculty is required.
Nevertheless, it is prudent that one ask an experienced person in spiritual warfare to effect this. This person may be laity or clergy and no episcopal permission is required.
Here in the United States there are few exorcists and thus it is unlikely that an exorcist will have the time to do a House Cleansing unless it is in direct connection to a possession case he is working on.
But, as mentioned, a House Cleansing and Blessing can be done by any priest or any layman.
House Cleansing and Blessing
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God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM+
Servant of the Servants of the Cross of Christ
 
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zim
(expellere)
Philippines
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2009 : 9:49:17 PM
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I'm not sure if I need to post this as a separate topic but I feel the need to share this as it may help you in the future or help you help others in the future. The story tells that even house infesting demons can be very nasty even to religious experienced in spiritual warfare.
I would only include the most relevant information directly from Fr. Syquia's book on the driving of the demons infesting his family's old house in Makati City. It's in page 182-186 of the book.
quote:
I stood waiting for the arrival of ... the deliverance group... I hurried to our gate to welcome them. The team consisted of Fr. Jay, the group leader, a religious sister wearing a green habit who specialized in spiritual warfare, and a number of lay people.
My first inkling of things to come was when the sister alighted from the van. She immediately doubled up in pain and started vomiting. I remember looking at her in confusion. It did not yet dawn on me that she was sensitive to the spirit world and was reacting to an evil presence in the vicinity. But I later became more alarmed when she showed the group her arms. Rashes were starting to appear on them! She really looked sick! ... it dawned on me that these sickness may be some form of retaliation.
... (After the separate groups drove evil spirits inside the house and regouped) The team seemed to have discovered the lair of the major malevolent entity that roamed the house at night harassing and sowing fear. It dwelt in a very old and gnarling mango tree located in the lot of the neighboring house. The branches of this dark tree extended beyond the walls that separated both our homes and reached inside our lot.
"It's a huge hideous demon," the sister told us gravely. "It is covered with dark hairy fur."
Martin [Fr. Jose's brother--Zim] arrived later carrying a large wooden olive cross, almost half the size of a normal person. He bought it in Jerusalem and it had been blessed by Pope John Paul II in Rome and Our Lady of Medjugorje in Yugoslavia. In addition, it had also touched numerous sites during a pilgrimage he once joined.
The sister had asked if she could borrow this sacred object to be used as a weapon to confront the elemental spirit in the mango tree... We watched closely and tensely as the sister, clutching the large crucifix tightly in front of her, approached the dark tree a number of feet away. I myself did not know what to expect.
Suddenly, our jaws dropped. The heavy-built sister twirled around like a top in high speed right before our eyes! She desperately tried to gain her balance to keep her from falling into the pool which was just a step away. At the last moment, she regained her footing and quickly retreated. She was visibly shaken and had to sit down.
... All of us present were still in shock at what we had just seen. As I turned to look at the sister, I noticed that she seemed to be gathering her bearings and strength to renew her assault. She smiled weakly at me and asked me if I could carry the crucifix once she resumed her attack against the evil presence. She added that I need not be afraid because I was a seminarian. But in my heart, I was afraid! I knew that I was a seminarian but I believed she was overestimating the grace in my soul.
As I walked behind the sister towards the mango tree. I realized that I was calm and recollected. The sister was now better prepared and she immediately resumed the offensive with quick and sharp commands against the malevolent spirit. The demon didn't get any more chances to retaliate against her, and she saw a shadowy dark beast flee from the tree. After just a short while, she turned around with a beaming smile on her face and matter-of-factly state that it was over.
Any evil spirit infesting a house or any object could be this nasty. It does require an experienced spiritual warrior to drive the demon successfully without harming himself or other persons'.
Hope this could help. |
Zim
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Therese
Squire
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 09:49:37 AM
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quote:
The sister had asked if she could borrow this sacred object to be used as a weapon to confront the elemental spirit in the mango tree... We watched closely and tensely as the sister, clutching the large crucifix tightly in front of her, approached the dark tree a number of feet away. I myself did not know what to expect.
Suddenly, our jaws dropped. The heavy-built sister twirled around like a top in high speed right before our eyes! She desperately tried to gain her balance to keep her from falling into the pool which was just a step away. At the last moment, she regained her footing and quickly retreated. She was visibly shaken and had to sit down.
Would such a situation be allowed here in the USA??
Here is a consecrated lay-woman not a priest confronting the demon in the tree. The whole story just doesn't sound right but then I'm ignorant (and glad to be) of how a "deliverance team" would go about "driving out evil spirits". |
Therese
"Lord, thou hast proved me, and known me: thou hast known my sitting down, and my rising up....Prove me O God, and know my heart; examine me, and know my paths. And see if there be in me the way of iniquity: and lead me in the eternal way." (Psalm 138, 1-2,23-24) |
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Rebecca
Administrator
USA
1518 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 11:08:54 AM
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Therese,
The problem with that scenario is the sister used a sacramental as a weapon and tried to confront a demon singlehandedly as if to "fight" it. The "weapon" she should have used instead is prayer.
A deliverance team (at least one that knows what it is doing) would pray for the demon to be cast out of the area. Sounds like this sister learned the hard way what NOT to do. |
Rebecca
Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. -Saint Augustine |
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zim
(expellere)
Philippines
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 11:19:01 AM
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Therese, Rebecca
I guessed you missed something in the story. When we say "religious" among us Catholics,* we mean "nuns" if they are women and "non-diocesan priests" if they are males.** I guess that term is not well-used in the US.
I'm not sure how you do your deliverance ministry but Catholics use sacramentals (including but not limited to a crucifix) AND prayers both in deliverance and exorcisms.
And I'm not sure how much you know on the authority of a religious priest to cast devils in the name of Jesus.***
*{Moderator's Note: This is a condescending comment. We are Catholics here and we know the meaning of the term "religious". This arrogance and pride is over the top and it will stop.}
** {Moderator's Note: The term "religious" is neither lay or cleric. Some lay and some priests are "religious". A male religious is not automatically a priest. In fact the historical norm is for a male religious to not be ordained a priest. Monasteries would only have as many priests as were needed for the Sacraments. The rest of the men were non-ordained brothers. Today there are both ordained brothers and non-ordained brothers.}
***{Moderator's Note: Religious priests have no special powers or authority to cast out devils other than the power of that derived from their ministerial ordination that all priests have regardless of diocesan or religious. The only other special authority comes when the Ordinary appoints a priest to do an authorized solemn exorcism. The priest he appoints may be diocesan or religious.} |
Zim
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Rebecca
Administrator
USA
1518 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 11:37:32 AM
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Zim, both Therese and I understood you were talking about a nun, who is a consecrated layperson.
There is a time and a place for sacramentals, but based solely on your description of what happened in this scenario, it doesn't sound to me that the nun's actions were appropriate. One's first line of defense should be prayer. I don't think it's wise for someone who is untrained to attempt to confront a demon directly while weilding a sacramental.
The SPCDC has guidelines for how to handle a violent haunting. We do not recommend that people directly command a demon. We do however, recommend that people pray asking God to command the demon to leave. See the link for more details. |
Rebecca
Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. -Saint Augustine |
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zim
(expellere)
Philippines
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 11:44:57 AM
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I don't think she was untrained being in the deliverance ministry herself...and in fact was able to drive the demon away. And she was allowed by her mother superior to perform that house deliverance, then she must have been trained by a qualified priest to do it in the past before joining the deliverance ministry.
To be honest, I'm worried about you guys in the center. Who trained you? Because you have no priest in your ranks. And Brother Ignatius as a brother, does not have the same authority as a regular priest. Who trained him in deliverance ministry? |
Zim
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Rebecca
Administrator
USA
1518 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 12:08:43 PM
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Zim,
Catholic deliverance teams are private prayer groups, and as such, are not required to have a priest lead the team. While having a priest on the team would be ideal, this is not always possible due to availability of priests.
As far as Brother Ignatius's training and experience goes, you can read his biography here. |
Rebecca
Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. -Saint Augustine |
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dandrea
Inquirer
Canada
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 12:31:19 PM
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Hello all
I believe that the Vatican and the Magesterium set the rules regarding exorcisms etc. The use of imprecatory and deprecatory rules have been laid out by the Vatican. These rules are not only for those in the US but for all the Roman Catholic church and it's faithful. If you do not follow these then you open yourself up to some nasty things and satan would surely run with that.
Deliverance ministry is a calling( confirmed through discernment) and as such needs to adhere to strict guidelines set out by the Vatican. Obedience is key here. God can and will deliver anyone or anything he chooses whether or not those perfroming the deliverance are in strict obedience or not. I do not think that giving a person credit for any deliverance is appropriate as it is always God that actually delivers those in harms way. Faith and intercession are the tools acomplished by prayer.
I do not think that it is necessary for anyone to be trained specifically by a priest with the authority of excorism as deliverance ministries should not be performing actual excorisms anyway. That would be disobedience and rebellion. The priests with special permission from their bishops may be able to guide those in deliverance ie: use of prayers,sacramentals etc but the best method is definitely prayer. Anyone(religious laity or not) that directly chooses to attack satan the evil forces with the intention of ordering them gone is setting themselves up for alot of problems.
If there is such a dramatic infestation in a house then you may be able to get a priest qualified to help but living in a state of grace and with the help of the sacraments and prayer you can help yourself by asking God to clear the home. Also I think that sometimes these things can take more than one blessing ...perhaps two or three before there are any tangible results. Also those living in the home need to be sure that they are receiving the sacraments worthily and keeping thier gates locked and hedges repaired or the evil will find its way back.
God Bless!
Dandrea
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Bro. Ignatius Mary
Director SPCDC
USA
2318 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 12:53:29 PM
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Dear Zim:
You have posted in declarative ways several times here as if you are vastly experienced in these matters and thus can offer definitive answers. Yet, judging from the comments you have made in various places here your experience and knowledge in spiritual warfare is questionable. I wonder what your training and field experience is in spiritual warfare?
In any event, when others did not agree with you abuse was your response. You were condescending with "instructions" to us about the term "religious", the definition of which you got wrong, by the way. Now you are patronizing with your "worry about us people at the Center."
Then when others did not bend to your opinion, you began a personal attack on me.
Your behavior is out-of-line and a violation of our published protocols. So you are out of the pool.
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God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM+
Servant of the Servants of the Cross of Christ
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Loli
Page
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 12:17:18 AM
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| Not to beat a dead horse here, but the minute I read that the Cross used by the nun had been blessed by the Pope and "Our Lady" of Medjugorje, I figured something was wrong. A dubious apparition that as of now is not approved has no business being used to "bless" anything, in my opinion. It just stood out as being problematic in the story. |
Loli |
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Blues
Page
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 01:42:04 AM
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Hi Everyone,
Blessing your home kind of got hijacked here. Saying our Graces and Blessings for our food are important.
Tom |
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arnold
Inquirer
Philippines
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 11:56:59 PM
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Hi to all. Sorry for whatever Zim may have impressed on his messages. I see he's also from here in the Phils. (I too). I also have read the book Zim was talking about and I'm happy to note that I have just met the author Fr. Jose Syquia yesterday in San Carlos Seminary where he holds office as the Archdiocese of Manila's head of the department of exorcism.
I think most readers might misunderstood some stories in the book. This is the reason why last Christmas, while I gave some friends and relatives copies of books as gifts, I think and pray first for discernment if the person whom I'm giving it may really benefit from it.
On this particular part of the story, the nun being talked about is, i suppose a regular part of Fr.Jocis' (Fr.Jose Syquia) team. The message i see here (as in the original message of Bro.Ignatius) is that lay people may use the Deliverance Prayer (or actions) since this isn't an Exorcism (reserved only for the Ordained). In fact, as a lay person (an Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Communion), I asked our Parish Priest if I can do deliverance in my own home and he readily allowed me saying "Do it and protect your family". The Deliverance I did was exactly on New Year with my whole family. This is to welcome the new year calling upon the Love and Mercy of God to protect us as One Family baptized in the name of The Holy Triune God. The book of Exorcism by Fr.Jose Syquia isn't exactly an instructional book. Readers should see it as a book full of actual stories of how God loves His people and How His power prevails over evil. God is Love! God bless us all. To Zim, I hope we can discuss more since we are in the same country (not exactly via this forum). |
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